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queer feminsm [May. 11th, 2009 @ 10:09 pm]
Feminist Debate


what is queer feminism to you? what do you know historically of the relationship between the feminist & gay rights movement circa 1960/1970? what literature, quotes, etc. do you feel embody the theory behind queer feminism? who are some important figureheads in this movement? how has third wave feminism included queer issues? what needs to be improved within the movement (specifically the communities in which you identify & act as a feminist within)?

i am going to be doing a workshop on queer feminism & would really like to hear everyone's responses to get my creative juices flowing! i also would like to hear a trans perspective as well as perspectives from womyn of color/any other person who occupies multiple spheres of oppression becos we really need to place value on these perspectives in the movement!

[User Picture]From: rosalarian
2009-05-12 05:37 am (UTC)
Will probably write more in the morning, but as a quickie, it's always fascinated me how gay men tend to be feminists. If anyone would be misogynistic, you'd think it'd be them, what with them neither being women, nor loving them.
I think the feminist movement is the mother of the gay rights movement.
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[User Picture]From: sinisterf
2009-05-12 01:44 pm (UTC)
Your comment comes off a bit homophobic an misogynistic. Love can exist without sex. To say that gay men don't "love" women and therefor cannot be invested in removing women's oppression plays on the old tropes that gay men hate women and that women are only valuable (lovable) for sex.

I'm not sure that this how you meant your comment... but my first oppression reading it was not a nice one...

I have to go to work, if I have time when there I'll add my two cents to queer feminism.
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[User Picture]From: rosalarian
2009-05-12 03:13 pm (UTC)
(The queer feminism think it's funny she sounds homophobic and misogynistic.)
Like I said, it was right before going to bed. Things tend not to come out like they should.

By not "loving" women, I did mean in a relationship way. I don't think gay men hate women. I'm saying you'd think if anyone had the least vested interest in the affairs of women that it would be gay men... but they're not.

I've actually written a much more eloquent speech on the whole thing here. about the relationship between the women's rights movement and the gay rights movement.
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[User Picture]From: sinisterf
2009-05-12 05:56 pm (UTC)
Funny enough I had just woken up as well, so I probably misread your post.

I haven't read the linked speech yet, so maybe you cover this. I think that it makes perfect sense for the feminist community to work with the LGBT community. Both groups are affected/oppressed (though in different ways) by the patriarchy. To question/fight the social norms that oppress one group naturally leads to freedoms for both.

Edited at 2009-05-12 05:57 pm (UTC)
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[User Picture]From: sinisterf
2009-05-12 05:58 pm (UTC)
Let me add, that not all forms of "fighting/ questioning" gives freedom to both groups... but there is a lot of crossover. I wish I had more time to write something eloquent, alas I'm at work and they are actually making me do stuff today. lol
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[User Picture]From: rosalarian
2009-05-12 06:09 pm (UTC)
Yeah, read that speech, even if it is a little tl;dr.
My thesis was that feminism opened the door for gay rights. It all started with women challenging conventional gender norms and a woman's role in society, which led to the breakdown of gender norms in other areas.

Hence why gay men are so passionate about women's rights. I think all of us LGBT people recognize that we would have no chance of anything happening if women's rights hadn't happened. If women were still barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen, how could we expect to ask that two women be allowed to be together? Or two men? If the archaic standards still applied, neither man in a gay relationship would be able to cook or clean, and neither woman in a lesbian relationship would be able to fix a house or have a job.
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[User Picture]From: bobella12
2009-05-12 10:17 pm (UTC)
I agree. Breaking down rigid gender roles was the first step for women's rights, and made the LGBT movement possible.

About gay men being supportive of women's rights even though they might have the least vested interest in them: I think gay men are in a unique position to understand what it's like to be slapped in the face by society telling you what you can and can not do because of your sex. It makes sense that they would be sympathetic to women's rights, to me anyway.
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